In his debut Hardrock 100, France’s Ludovic Pommeret not only ran away with a dominant win but also set an overall course record. In the following interview, Ludovic talks about spending miles with other runners early on, how he worried that he may have pushed too hard on the descent off of Kroger’s Canteen and into Ouray, missing the sunset on Handies Peak because he was too fast, and how he refused any information on splits to other racers until near the end of the race so that he could focus on managing his needs.
For more on how the race played out, check out our in-depth 2024 Hardrock 100 results article.
Ludovic Pommeret, 2024 Hardrock 100 Champion, Interview Transcript
iRunFar: Bryon Powell of iRunFar here with Ludovic Pommeret after his win at the 2024 Hardrock 100. How are you, Ludo?
Ludovic Pommeret: I’m good. I feel good. It’s okay. You know, you’re always feeling good when the race has been a success, that you are proud of the race, and you always recover better.
iRunFar: Yeah. Well, you had an outstanding race. From the beginning, you were in the lead, but for a while you were with François [D’Haene] and Diego [Pazos]. How was the start of the race for you?
Pommeret: Yeah, I was surprised to take the lead just in the first climb. Usually I’m not doing that, but that’s a different race. That was a dream to come in this race. The day started with a dream, just leading the race at the first climb.
iRunFar: Yeah?
Pommeret: It was good to share a bit of trails with François, Diego, and Jason [Schlarb]. It was nice.
iRunFar: When did you go off on your own?
Pommeret: In downhill mainly, but then François come back in the uphill. And then, really on the uphill to Kroger’s Canteen.
iRunFar: Yeah.
Pommeret: Then François could not reach me during the uphill. Then I have never seen him again.
iRunFar: So, you’re running alone from Kroger’s.
Pommeret: Yeah, from Telluride, in fact.
iRunFar: Yeah? When did you pick up a pacer?
Pommeret: In Ouray.
iRunFar: Okay, so only one stretch that you were entirely alone.
Pommeret: Yeah. I told to my crew, next time I see you, we will play together on the trails.
[laughs]
iRunFar: Yeah, so Ouray is almost halfway through the race. How are you feeling when you come into the Ouray checkpoint?
Pommeret: I was not sure that I did the right pacing in downhill, because I was pretty fast for me. It’s not a Jim [Walmsley] pace, but for me it was quite fast downhill. So I said maybe I will pay that in the next uphill. But yeah, finally it was good, everything good.
iRunFar: A lot of people talked about, in the front of the race, talked about heat, even very early in the race. Was that a problem for you going up to Grant Swamp Pass, or Oscar’s Pass, or Kroger’s?
Pommeret: No, it was not a problem. It was more that we have to adapt to our nutrition plan. Our nutrition plan was more based on the powder, you know, in the water. And using that, I was too thirsty. So, I had to change a bit, and take water to not have this sugar always in the mouth. And that’s a change that we have to perform. No, it was hot, but that’s nothing compared to Western [States].
iRunFar: No. You’ve done that.
Pommeret: I think it was only 30 degrees [Celcius] in Ouray.
iRunFar: But at the high elevation, and with the sun, it can feel hotter than 30.
Pommeret: But then, especially from Ouray to Engineer Pass, all the small rivers that you cross, are just like on Western. So, you try to stay wet all the time, except when you reach very high, close to the top that you don’t.
iRunFar: Yeah, and the air here is very dry. It’s not like Diagonale des Fous.
Pommeret: Yeah.
iRunFar: The air is dry. So if you get wet, the evaporation is quite nice and cooling.
Pommeret: Yeah, yeah. But the temperature was perfect, and weather was perfect. I just have a small rain downhill to Governor, Governor to Ouray. But it was just a small one. And you remove the dust from the road. So no, that was perfect.
iRunFar: So when you adjust your nutrition, you were having some water as well as, I assume, some sports drink. When you took away, when you added the water, did you add other form of nutrition? More gels, more food, what?
Pommeret: Yeah, of course, you have to replace what I was not eating or drinking. So, I replaced with gels and purée, I don’t know.
iRunFar: Yeah, purée.
Pommeret: Purée, yeah.
iRunFar: Like apple?
Pommeret: Yeah, apple and butternut. That’s a Näak product. So yeah, of course, I have to replace. Yeah, my goal for nutrition was to stay around 30 kilocalories per hour.
iRunFar: 300, yeah.
Pommeret: Yeah, 300, yes. And so, I think we follow the plan and maybe even more sometime.
iRunFar: That’s incredible. And your stomach throughout the race?
Pommeret: Stomach was okay. I have to stop at the beginning of the race, but not because of stomach issue. That’s, I’d say, usual. [laughs]
iRunFar: It’s a good morning, yes.
Pommeret: And everything was good. And I had a glycemic sensor.
iRunFar: Oh, you had a glycemic sensor. You’re checking your blood sugar.
Pommeret: Yeah. That I analyzed after the race if everything was good. And I stayed in the
correct range, so the nutrition is good.
iRunFar: That’s incredible because that’s a huge challenge from the front to the back of the pack at Hardrock, being at high elevation for so long.
Pommeret: Yeah, that was something that I didn’t know if my body will support the nutrition. Because we have a plan, but it’s different, and you react maybe different with elevation. So, that’s something that you cannot really plan. And during the training, I have not the same nutrition. I take, of course, less than in the race. So, that was an unknown part.
iRunFar: So, you get over, you make the climb out of Ouray to Engineer Pass. You were all alone. Do you know how much of a gap you have on the next?
Pommeret: No, because from Telluride, I asked my crew and my pacers to not give me any race info on the other runners. I wanted to stay focused on my race, on my feeling. And I asked them to shut up.
iRunFar: [laughs]
Pommeret: And they didn’t give me any info until Cunningham.
iRunFar: And your climb over Handies Peak, how was that?
Pommeret: Yeah, it’s okay. This side, I think I prefer than the other one because, you know, it’s split. You have a first uphill, then a bit rest. It’s downhill. And the second step, second climb. So, it was okay. And I was better feeling than on the Softrock.
iRunFar: Yeah. And I was going to ask how the view was from the top of Handies, but you tell me at the finish or on the course, you weren’t taking in the views.
Pommeret: No.
iRunFar: Because you did two Softrocks. Did you see the sunset at Handies Peak?
Pommeret: No, because I was much more in advance for sunset. So, that was the expectation to have sunset at Handies. But finally, I had to switch on the light after Sherman. So, it was no sunset. But yeah, it was nice to do the downhill from Handies Peak during the day.
iRunFar: It’s much easier.
Pommeret: It’s easier.
iRunFar: So, I know you said you weren’t getting any race information from your crew, but you’re arriving at checkpoints or at the top of Handies Peak much earlier than you were planning.
Pommeret: Yeah, yeah. [laughs]
iRunFar: So, you’re starting to think, I’m running a very fast time.
Pommeret: Yeah, but I stopped to read my watch also. So, I know that I saw the sun. It was not too low. So, I said, for sure, I’m in advance on my planning, but I didn’t know how many.
iRunFar: Was that scary, exciting?
Pommeret: Exciting, but I was just focused on my pace and try to find, you know, it’s always difficult to find the right pace. You don’t know if you are going too fast or if you can do better. And so, I was just listening to my body and try.
iRunFar: So, how are you motivating yourself at this time? Again, it’s only you and your pace, or you haven’t seen another runner in 50 or 60 miles. What is the motivation?
Pommeret: You know, it’s really difficult to get a bib here. So, motivation is first to finish the loop, kiss the rock. I learned that you have to kiss the rock before you stop the timing. [laughs] So, that was the main motivation. And just to listen to your body and not the other one. That was enough for me. I called my coach just before the race. Six minutes before the race, I was still with my coach. And he told me, just try to do your race and don’t take care about others. And it’s what I have done. And even if I knew that there was nobody behind, because when you are in the dark, near Cataract, you do a bit of a run and you see that on all the valley, there’s no light. So, I knew that there was some margin.
iRunFar: So, now you’re far into the race. You’re 120 kilometers. Things are still going completely fine?
Pommeret: Yeah. That was surprising because I say the beginning of the race was a dream. I
was always thinking, when will be the nightmare? When will start the nightmare? But no.
iRunFar: No.
Pommeret: Never.
iRunFar: No problems.
Pommeret: No problems. When I wanted to run, I run. I run. And it was a perfect day. I don’t know. It has never happened to me before that.
iRunFar: This was your most perfect race?
Pommeret: Yeah. Yeah. Everything, all planets aligned.
iRunFar: You can’t compare it to when you won UTMB, but that was not a
perfect race.
Pommeret: No, no, for sure. That was,
iRunFar: A disaster.
Pommeret: Yeah. [laughs]
iRunFar: That was a nightmare first and then a dream.
Pommeret: Yes, exactly.
iRunFar: So, you said earlier, that you had no information about the other racers, about your time, until Cunningham. And what do you learn at Cunningham?
Pommeret: So, just my wife say, may I tell you something? I say, okay, now Cunningham, I can. So, she told me you are around 20 minutes ahead of the course record. So, now you have to push to get this record. So, we just stopped at the aid station. I drink some soup. There’s some Näak soup that are pretty good during the night, especially when it’s cold. And then I decided, okay, we’ll try. I knew that
Kilian [Jornet] pushed really hard at the end.
iRunFar: I was going to ask you that because it’s really important.
Pommeret: I say it will be really tough because I remember, because I have done that on the Softrock, and I have done also training from Maggie’s to Silverton, in addition of the Softrock. So, I knew that the uphill from Kilian was 46 minutes, I think. I say, I can never reach this timing. So, I will for sure lose some minutes in the uphill. Finally, I did 52, I think. So, that was good.
iRunFar: So, 14 minutes now.
Pommeret: So, yeah. And then downhill, it was much more difficult during the race because it was dark. So, the light. It’s a road, but it’s rocky road, and you have to find the right path.
iRunFar: Every step, you must be watching.
Pommeret: Yeah. So, it’s quite difficult. And it was also a risk to not be injured in trying to go fast in the last descent. So, that’s it.
iRunFar: Even the three or five kilometers on the flat trail into town.
Pommeret: Yeah, horrible. It’s not flat at all. [laughs]
iRunFar: Not easy.
Pommeret: There’s three uphill that are really short, but there’s one that seems to be as long as a [Little] Giant Pass.
iRunFar: It might be one minute, but it feels like 50.
Pommeret: Yes.
iRunFar: And you’re coming into the finish, and you’re just, the whole way through town, you’re just pushing, pushing, pushing.
Pommeret: Yeah, pushing. I arrived at the old rocks, you know, at the bottom of the lift, and I knew that it’s around one kilometer, a bit more. And I have eight minutes more. So, I will do it, but I will continue to push. And it was, let’s say, a Zach [Miller] finish. Inspiration from Zach, always finishing as fast as possible. [laughs]
iRunFar: And then you did, and then you vomit. [laughs]
Pommeret: Yeah. The finish was not smooth. No, it’s not smooth.
iRunFar: No, it’s smooth, you pushed it the whole way. And that was the first time you were sick the entire race. Yes?
Pommeret: Yeah. Only at the finish, when you stop, and then your body, yeah.
iRunFar: And so, what are your thoughts on that accomplishment? Is it your best race ever, or?
Pommeret: Yeah, I think the best, yeah. Because everything run fine, so yeah. For sure, it’s the best race.
iRunFar: Do you think you’d come back here?
Pommeret: [laughs] You know, you take a long time to get a bib here, so I don’t know if you can refuse a bib. But yeah, we’ll see. We have to discuss.
iRunFar: It’s not no.
Pommeret: It’s not no.
iRunFar: I’m sensing a maybe, probably.
Pommeret: So, is it true that to be a real Hardrocker, you have to do both sides?
iRunFar: Yes, if you want to be a Hardrocker.
Pommeret: We’ll see, we’ll see.
iRunFar: So, it’s been discussed a lot. You’re 48. You’re going to turn 49 this week?
Pommeret: Yeah, in eight days.
iRunFar: Okay, eight days. I want to say it’s an inspiration, but it also tells me I have no excuses. I’m 46.
Pommeret: It’s still young, it’s okay.
iRunFar: I still want to run Hardrock again. I’m thinking, as many people do in their mid-40s, I’m never going to be able to run as fast as I did before. I’ve got to lower my expectations.
Pommeret: That’s probably true on short distance, but that’s different on long distance, I think.
iRunFar: You hold all of us in our 40s accountable.
Pommeret: It’s good. That experience is also something that serves you for the race.
iRunFar: Yeah, I talked to Jason Schlarb a little bit after the race about how, you know, he’s 46, you’re 48. The level in the last 10 years has, in all of ultrarunning, has gone up. Not just a little, a lot. There’s a lot of younger people being competitive, people in their 20s, their 30s.
Pommeret: And especially the density on the race is increasing. We have seen on Western also that three are under 14:30.
iRunFar: But especially at, they’re all hard, but the harder, more mountainous races, with a lot of other factors, you can still win. You can still set course records.
Pommeret: It seems.
iRunFar: You’ve been doing this for a very long time. Is it 20 years since your first UTMB?
Pommeret: Yeah, this year, 20 years. Yeah.
iRunFar: What has changed with your body? Have you found some things have improved? Is recovery easy? What’s changed for you?
Pommeret: I think the body changed, for sure. When I started running, I think my body was not ready. You know, the body has to learn also, and keep only the right fiber, you say?
iRunFar: Yeah.
Pommeret: In your legs. So, I think for, especially for ultra, your body is adapting and the experience on the past race. The Western States experience, it was great also for me, because I learned that you could run quite fast, and still could hike and you can run for a long time. And that was not what I prefer. I prefer to hike, in fact. I’m not a real runner, I never learn how to run, so.
iRunFar: Yeah. And what is your marathon PR? Your best?
Pommeret: Just before Western, I did 2:31.
iRunFar: Which is good, but it’s also… So that’s just so cool. You know, you learn, your body improves, the muscle fibers, so you can maybe train more or train longer and not have injury. Do you think your energy systems have adapted? Like, your ability to continue to eat and to continue to process fuel?
Pommeret: This I’m not sure, but I try to continue experience on my body, how I should train, because, I think that we don’t have the perfect training for the long distance. So, I’m still experimenting on myself. You know, the high volume, usually I do it a bit earlier. Now I finish my volume only two weeks before the start. That’s a change, yeah. I did a quite strong training, it was short, it was climbing to the Island Lake. And we finished quite fast with my pacers.
iRunFar: When?
Pommeret: Full speed, three days before. And we were really exhausted at the top.
iRunFar: What was the inspiration for that? Because that’s not, that would not have been the norm, like 10 years ago. You’d give three weeks taper or something.
Pommeret: I was playing with my pacer and that’s it. We start, you know, it’s…
iRunFar: Not a strategy.
Pommeret: No, no.
iRunFar: The coach was like, no, no.
Pommeret: No, the coach was, okay, I did two hours. It was 1:15. But no, there was nothing planned for this training. So just, you have to continue and see what is working for you. And there’s no universal training.
iRunFar: And you learn what’s better for you over time. Each year, maybe.
Pommeret: Maybe, but what worked one day could not work the day after.
iRunFar: And mentally, I’m sure you’ve grown a ton over 20 years.
Pommeret: Yes, for sure, but I think I have not learned so much on this race because it was so smooth. That’s not something, as I said to Courtney [Dauwalter], I have no pain cave on this race, so I didn’t learn. But I learned a lot on other races.
iRunFar: So it’s the problems and the challenges when you learn. It’s not when everything goes well.
Pommeret: Yeah, of course, we say often that you learn more when you lose than when you win, but yeah, I prefer win. [laughs]
Pommeret: And win you did. Congratulations on your win, Ludo.
Pommeret: Thanks.
iRunFar: And good luck at UTMB!
Pommeret: Yeah, thanks.
iRunFar: Maybe go for another win?
Pommeret: No, I’m not expecting that, but.
iRunFar: Give your best.
Pommeret: Yeah, thanks.
iRunFar: Congratulations.
