The U.S.’s Joseph Gray is racing the vertical kilometer at the 2024 Mountain Running World Cup Finals this weekend. In this interview, he talks about becoming a masters runner this year, while still competing at the highest level; how racing at sea level will be different than the high-altitude races he is accustomed to at home in Colorado; and what the evolution of mountain running has looked like from his perspective.
For more on who’s racing, check out our in-depth men’s and women’s previews and follow our coverage here on the website and on Twitter/X over the weekend.
Joseph Gray Pre-2024 Mountain Running World Cup Finals Interview Transcript
iRunFar: Meghan Hicks of iRunFar. I’m with Joseph Gray. It’s a couple of days before the 2024 Mountain Running World Cup Finals. Hi, Joseph. How are you?
Joseph Gray: Good. Thank you for having me. Feeling good. Always good to be back here in Italy, so yeah.
iRunFar: So we’re here in the northern part of Italy, in Chiavenna, in a valley that’s right on the border with Switzerland.
Gray: Right.
iRunFar: Beautiful valley. It’s been raining and the sun came out. What do you think of this area, this course you’re going to run this weekend?
Gray: You know, it’s a special course. It’s a vertical kilometer, obviously it’s going to be steep. I love that there’s no poles at this VK, you know, it’s mountain running.
iRunFar: True mountain running.
Gray: Yeah, so I really like that. It will be slippery because of, as you said, the rain has been pretty ferocious. I haven’t seen rain like that in a while. So that was pretty cool to see. And the river, just seeing it roaring, that was definitely special. We don’t see that in Colorado as much.
iRunFar: That’s right. We have the quick passing storms as opposed to the all-night couple inches of rain, and then the mountains just dump the water out like they are right now.
Gray: Yeah, exactly.
iRunFar: So, this is a new course, a new place for you. However, you are not unfamiliar with the World Mountain Running Association circuit and mountain running in general and uphill running. So you’ve been at this for quite some time. What’s it like to be here at this point in your running career after having seen mountain running evolve and the whole thing professionalizing around you?
Gray: I always say, man, you know, tomorrow’s not promised. So, any day that I’m given an opportunity is pretty special. It’s more special than the last one, because it’s a new one. But it feels normal, right? All business, you are like normal. You’re coming here to compete and represent your country. It’s a little different than a world championships. I think an actual world championships, you feel a little bit more, there’s more energy in it.
There’s more to gain. You feel like there’s more to lose also. And so you’re fighting for something very different, but this race feels very close to a world championships, and it’s very competitive, and it’s something new for me. I haven’t been doing VKs, so I’m excited about that. And you know, obviously being a masters now, it’s exciting to be still representing the country and getting this opportunity again.
iRunFar: Yeah, it’s interesting to hear you say you’re not a VK specialist, but I would call you kind of an uphill specialist. I guess just not quite as steeply uphill.
Gray: Yeah, they are different. You know, the classic kind of style of mountain running, say before they started to combine all the championships, was more so, wasn’t as steep as a VK per se. You had to be able to run still. This one, you can get by with a little bit of hiking, and you’re going to have to hike. I mean, there’s some sections here where it’s steep enough to where no matter how strong you are, you’re going to have to take a couple of steps. Yeah, so it’s different.
iRunFar: And for you, because where we come from in Colorado, you can do tons of uphill running, but a lot of it, like you said, is at a grade that’s pretty runnable, unless you’re doing it for hours and hours and hours, right? What’s it like to convert to a course that’s shorter, steeper, big steps? You’re going to have to not run here and there and make it happen.
Gray: Yeah, I mean, I think that the biggest difference is, it’s faster. You know, there’s more wattage in it. When you’re on stuff this steep in Colorado, you’re not able to have the high power output just because you don’t have the oxygen.
iRunFar: Yep, that’s a really good point.
Gray: And so it is unique in the sense that this is probably my first VK, I think at sea level. I don’t know if I’ve done one at sea level.
iRunFar: Okay, yeah.
Gray: So, it’s kind of cool to do one, but I’ve noticed just even when I’ve run, you know, at lower altitudes, you’re able to like, power through a little bit better. Whereas in Colorado, your quads start burning pretty quick, and you’re powerhiking pretty early for VK-type courses. And so this one is being pretty close to sea level, it’ll be a lot of power. People are going to be moving a lot quicker than you’re used to seeing. A VK in Colorado might be 40 minutes. Here, it’s going to be way faster than 40 minutes.
iRunFar: That’s really an excellent point. It’d be great to see everybody’s wattage outputs after this, a VK at sea level.
Gray: Yeah, I’m sure it would be quite drastic just because like I said, I mean, eight, nine minutes at least, I would say when you’re in Colorado, especially where there’s typical VK areas, those types of routes are way slower when you’re up that high, you know what I mean? So yeah, it’s going to be cool to just run like at close to sea level.
iRunFar: Yeah, you mentioned a minute ago that you’re a masters runner now, you turned 40 this year. You won the U.S. Mountain Running Championships against everyone, every age, not a category win.
Gray: Yeah.
iRunFar: You’ve seen a lot, but what’s it like now to move into that new category and be, I’m going to compete for masters wins, but I’m competing for overall placings here.
Gray: Yeah, it is, it’s a weird … it feels weird, to be honest with you.
iRunFar: Does it?
Gray: If I’m being completely honest, it feels strange because if things aren’t going well, you’re almost, well, I’m a masters and you don’t want that mindset.
iRunFar: Yeah.
Gray: I don’t want to be the old guy who’s just out here for age group stuff because that’s not what I’m doing it for. And it’s not, that’s not expected of me. You know, my sponsors still expect me to be a champion and to be competitive. And so, it’s weird because you’re in a separate category, you know, you got to wear a different bib at our championships, our nationals.
Some races will have masters where the masters start differently than the open. And so I think I did my first road masters championships this year and it was, I don’t know if I liked it as much, but I get it, right? If I’m 60 years old, I’m clearly not in my prime. I don’t want to race a bunch of 25-year-olds on the same starting line.
iRunFar: Then the category competition becomes totally relevant.
Gray: Right, and I totally get it. It felt weird for me just because I wanted to still run fast and I was going to have to do it alone, or maybe one other person. And so it gives you a different challenge. You have to definitely learn how to race with yourself in some races. It’s not going to be as packed up front.
iRunFar: Right.
Gray: Whereas, you know, I’ve done other races where it’s really loaded and you’re dying halfway in and you’re getting buried by 20 people. And so you have something, you know, people to kind of pull you along. And in the masters races, especially when you’re at the bottom of the masters, you’re just becoming one. You’re kind of in your prime for the masters category. You might have to do a little bit of work on your, you know, alone.
iRunFar: But I think you kind of, in that, you make a really good point that, yes, you are in the masters category, but that doesn’t mean that you’re not still competing. You’re competing to represent the masters, but you’re still competing in the overall category. And in doing so, you can sort of raise the level of competition for masters running at the same time.
Gray: Right. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know if I can, I mean, in the U.S. we have so many good masters that, like Chris Grauch, you know, he’s been killing it for years. Simon Gutierrez killed it as a master. So, I think I’m just kind of jumping into that history that they’ve already kind of created. And yeah, we have a long history of masters running pretty great in trail, in the U.S. specifically.
iRunFar: And to put this weekend’s race sort of in the context of your season. You’ve already had really cool things happen this year. You won the U.S. Mountain Running Championships. You set a course record at Mount Washington, which is a revered course record.
Gray: Oh no, the wins record. I set the [number of] wins record.
iRunFar: Sorry. Yeah.
Gray: It’s easy to get mixed up. I have the other record. I set another record there two years ago.
iRunFar: Okay.
Gray: Yeah, that’s the record year.
iRunFar: Okay, sorry. But you’ve had a big year. So how do you keep the season going? We’re in October now. A lot’s happened. Like Pike’s Peak Ascent, all this other stuff. How, yeah, how are you keeping things going here in October?
Gray: No, I mean, it’s funny that you even ask that. I think it is difficult. I think any athlete, when you’ve had a really long season, I think mentally, physically, sometimes it’s difficult. I’ve had a lot of breaks. So I think, you know, having kids to kind of take your mind off of the racing world when you’re taking those breaks too, can be beneficial. So, you know, it keeps you motivated. And I think this being a Team USA event, so late in the season, it was kind of interesting to be able to go to Italy and end your season, you know, mountain racing here.
iRunFar: So this is the sort of season closer for you then?
Gray: Yeah, kind of, yeah. I’ll be switching, going to a different genre after this, so yeah.
iRunFar: To snowshoeing or to?
Gray: Probably cross country.
iRunFar: Okay, okay.
Gray: Yeah, cross country or some road. I love cross country. So I’m looking at this rain and the mud that we’re seeing here is kind of getting me excited about that a little bit, but not in Colorado because we don’t really have that.
iRunFar: We don’t do that there, but we can go find it.
Gray: We don’t have grass. So, yeah.
iRunFar: [laughs] Well, Joseph Gray, good luck at the VK this weekend at the Mountain Running World Cup Finals.
Gray: I appreciate it. Thank you, Meghan.
